KCLUG November 2004

54 participants
130 discussions

Re: Proposed Web site redesign (beta)
by Brian Kelsay 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

We have had blind Linux users in the past attend meetings. They use Lynx as far as I know and redirect to text to speech or to some sort of Braille reader device that uses a serial port. never seen one up close, but have read about them. We would need the static pages still and have them linked from a link that occurs at the top of the page so they could get to it easily. We have similar users here at the USDA and so all pages must be run thru Bobby and a couple of other validators. Somehow they make the stuff work, but we don't have a user forum as far as I know. A best practice that you may want to use, would be to have a static from page with a link to the forum portion or something similar. Kind of the reverse of having a Flash intro page, if you get my meaning. Brian Kelsay >>> Steven Hildreth <> 11/09/04 11:52AM >>> Is w3/wia and w3/HTML compliance a requirement of the replacement offering? Never was mentioned to me when I offered to create a new modern, dynamic replacement site. No CMS stock package I have found (I have tested several for a previous project including; PhpNuke, PostNuke, Slashcode, eGroupware, Mambo, and XOOPS) generates either w3/wia or w3/HTML compliant code. My position is that if it renders well in Mozilla, Firefox, Konqueror and IE that is ensuring a wide enough target audience. Sure the Links guys will get pissed, but realistically I think we should ensure operability with the 99% audience - not degrade the overall visual impression for all to appease the 1% Other opinions? Regards, Steven (Tallen)

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Re: Network cloning of raid array
by Brian Kelsay 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

Not sure if it will work in a RAID setup, but the Linux world has partimage, to image partitions. I still haven't had a chance to test it, but it is supposed to work with NFS shares, partition to partition and disk to disk. There may be something in the RaidTools package that will do what you want. Brian Kelsay >>> Brad <> 11/09/04 10:25AM >>> I have 2 raid 5 systems that I need to install to be identical. I was hoping someone might know of a way to install and configure the first, and then clone it over the network. Yes, I could use ghost, but I was hoping there was a nice way of doing it with Linux utilities. I read about using a rescue disk and a floppy with netcat to use dd, but I am not sure that is the easiest way. Suggestions?

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Re: Network cloning of raid array
by Brian Kelsay 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

Just thought of something else. You could use something like Kickstart to create a sort of install script that makes multiple exact installs possible. http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/lpt/a/5077 http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/lpt/a/5296 Brian Kelsay

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RE: Network cloning of raid array
by Brian Densmore 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

He would then first have to configure the drives for RAID 5 and duplicate all the configuration of the disks. I think he is wanting to snapshot the system. Although I wasn't aware that ghost could do that to a RAID system. Not sure if this would help, but I wrote a program years ago that would read a disk from the physical beginning to the physical end and write it to another disk. If you want I could dig up the source code. It might be assembler and/or C and was written for a DOS system. But doesn't dd do just this, read the physical disk? Why would he need to anything except dd the drives? > -----Original Message----- > From: djgoku > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 11:26 AM > To: kclug(a)kclug.org > Subject: Re: Network cloning of raid array > > > Could you just tar up the system boot to a live cd mount / and untar? >

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backing up symlinks
by Rob Becker 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

I'm playing with optimizing the startup scripts on an old redhat box. In order to avoid completely monkeying things up, I would like to back up the /etc/rc.d/rc3.d directory prior to making changes. I've read the man pages on both cp and ln and I'm coming up short regarding backing up the symlinks in this directory. Is there a way to create symlinks with the same names that point to the same files as the original symlinks? I know I can do it manually, but I'd prefer to use the * wildcard to get it all done in one shot if possible. Does anyone have any ideas? Am I thinking about this the wrong way? Please enlighten me if I am missing an obvious solution. Thanks. Rob

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Re: Network cloning of raid array
by Brian Kelsay 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

Feels like I have this conversation every 6 months or so, but here goes. One of the benefits of using Ghost or partimage or g4u (ghost for Unix, forgot that one before), is that you are taking a snapshot of a *non-running* OS. Not so much of a problem on Linux as it is w/ Windows, but this gets rid of the problem of trying to capture locked files and log files tend to be in flux too. It lets you get an exact copy at a moment in time and copy over a network, to a partition or to another disk, possibly to an exact duplicate RAID system to create a redundant backup. Your idea of using a LiveCD is dead on, but the tarring and the order are probably off. Tar was originally meant to be used during backup to tape, so you may be OK using it, but I prefer using imaging tools that are able to lay down exact duplicate filesystems and compensate for larger or smaller destination partitions. They dynamically change the partition table to expand the image to fit the available space. Some programs do this well, Ghost, others do it poorly if at all, Partition Image by PowerQuest (not to be confused w/ partimage). Knoppix should have partimage and may have g4u. To get Ghost or Partition Image (recently bought out by Symantec, the owners of Ghost) you have to pay or have a good friend that uses it. ;-) Brian Kelsay >>> djgoku <> 11/09/04 11:25AM >>> Could you just tar up the system boot to a live cd mount / and untar? On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 11:21:03 -0600, Brad <brad(a)bradandkim.net> wrote: > On Tue, 2004-11-09 at 10:29, Brian Kelsay wrote: > > Not sure if it will work in a RAID setup, but the Linux world has partimage, to image partitions. I still haven't had a chance to test it, but it is supposed to work with NFS shares, partition to partition and disk to disk. There may be something in the RaidTools package that will do what you want. > > > > Cool, I will check that out and see if it helps...thanks. >

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RE: Proposed Web site redesign (beta)
by Brian Kelsay 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

Damn, you beat me to it. On the punctuation thing. I didn't see where he used the word "critique" though. The first word of a sentence should be capitalized though. All kidding aside, you did a good job Tallen. Brian, XOOPS is a CMS (Content Management System), like PHPNuke, PostNuke, Slashdot, et al. I think it is written in PHP. Steven said he wanted to use that since he knew it and it is very flexible due to lots of modules being available. I am worried about speed issues, but the new LUG server seems to be very beefy, so far. I still prefer the listserv, because everybody has a mail client and it is usually open all day. Unfortunately, if I am only subscribed from home, then I may not be able to check those messages throughout the day unless I have webmail of some sort. We'll see how it shakes out. If someone else thinks they can do better, they can always volunteer and start w/ they're own space or collaborate w/ Steven. Brian Kelsay >>> "Brian Densmore" <> 11/09/04 09:42AM >>> > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven Hildreth > > ... Not to sound ungrateful for any comments/suggestions, but lets try to > make them constructive and productive to making a modern, updated, > technical site for our group. I know you Linux guys (myself > included) tend to argue over semantics versus content ;) Nice job. I posted a comment on the site. Not to be picky or nitpicky or argue over semantics, buuuuuuuut ... sentences usually end in one of [.?!] not ";)" . ^ Note period to end sentence. ________________| Also critique is spelled with a "u". ;') <snip> What is XOOPS? (Sure I could google it, but you brought it up - and I'm lazy today.)

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WinPT
by djgoku 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

Anyone had much luck with WinPT? I am trying to get this thing working!!! I try to verify a file and just sits there. I created a gpg key though. Guess I could just copy it to my linux box at work. -- dj_goku -www.djgoku.com- -www.tektronic.org-

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RE: Proposed Web site redesign (beta)
by Brian Densmore 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

> -----Original Message----- > From: Steven Hildreth > > ... Not to sound ungrateful for any comments/suggestions, but lets try to > make them constructive and productive to making a modern, updated, > technical site for our group. I know you you Linux guys (myself > included) tend to argue over semantics versus content ;) Nice job. I posted a comment on the site. Not to be picky or nitpicky or argue over semantics, buuuuuuuut ... sentences usually end in one of [.?!] not ";)" . ^ Note period to end sentence. ________________| Also critique is spelled with a "u". ;') All jesting aside. I like your design and of course it needs more content, which is irrelevant at this stage. I did notice two things that popped out at me. One, I like having a top pull down menu, not that the site needs one. Also, when going from the home page to other pages in the sidebar I noticed the links disappear (at least some of the time). It was quite noticeable and made me look off to the side momentarily taking my attention away from the content. That may be ok, seeing as you have a menu entry for links, but it may be more aesthetically pleasing to leave the links on all pages. What is XOOPS? (Sure I could google it, but you brought it up - and I'm lazy today.) $0.02, Brian

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RE: chroot breakout (was: Xen 2.0 Virtual Machine)
by Garrett Goebel 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

Brian Densmore wrote: > >> Garrett Goebel wrote: >> >>> Have you tried to just chroot into another one? >> For _a_ test environment, that's fine. But not for running multiple >> simultaneous test environments, or giving away root accounts. > >Are you saying that you can't open up multiple CLIs and run chroot in >as many simultaneous instances as memory and diskspace allow? Sure, but instances of what? Processes not kernels. You couldn't for instance test the setup of a high availability cluster... >[somewhat OT: ] >Also if one can break out >of a chroot environment then they have the skill to own the machine >anyway. You need to be able to find and use a security flaw on the >machine that would give you root access and have access inside of >the chrooted environment to a compiler or perl interpreter. So the >fact that one could own a machine from inside a chroot environment >doesn't increase the possibility that someone could get root access. Unless of course you _want_ to give someone root access without fear that they can subvert their host. Chroot is fine for running services under a low privilege account in a jail. It isn't a cure-all. >Although what that has to do with wanting to run a VM, which is what >this thread is about, eludes me. In order to run a VM a user would >need an account on your box, and if they are going to crack your >system and have the knowledge to break out of a chrooted environment, >then they can own your box from their user account. In order to run a UML VM on a box, you need to run a UML instance which the end user could log into. They don't need _access_ to an account on the UML host. Except to the extent that UML instance would be running under some set of credentials. With UML I can give anyone I wish a root account on their own virtual Linux box... I still have to worry about them misusing it or being penetrated, but not so much about attempts to subvert the uml host. I think UML is promising choice for ISP's who offer co-hosting services. -- Garrett Goebel IS Development Specialist ScriptPro Direct: 913.403.5261 5828 Reeds Road Main: 913.384.1008 Mission, KS 66202 Fax: 913.384.2180 www.scriptpro.com garrett at scriptpro dot com

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KCLUG November 2004