KCLUG January 2005

67 participants
155 discussions

Conservatives (was: Open Source Values [off-topic])
by Garrett Goebel 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

csappenfield at kc dot rr dot com wrote: > > While it might be comforting (especially after the trouncing > in the recent elections) to think of conservatives in general > as jackbooted nitwits who love "hierarchy and authority", it > probably just isn't true. For example, conservatives worship > free markets, which are nothing if not "anarchy, lawlessness, > [and] chaos". > > Conservatives also like property rights. Free software comes > with enormous property rights, in exchange for which we give > up some methods to profit from those rights. Free software > allows cooperation, but doesn't force it- installing Linux on > your computer doesn't make you a member of some commune, > regardless of what Forbes would have you believe. > > Business conservatism, rather than political conservatism, is > what really opposes Free software. Let's set the record straight. Here are the core canon's of the ideological ax grinding conservative, from the man (Russell Kirk) who coined the term in the first place: http://www.kirkcenter.org/kirk/thought.html > > Ten Conservative Principles (1993) > > First, the conservative believes that there exists an enduring > moral order. > > Second, the conservative adheres to custom, convention, and > continuity. > > Third, conservatives believe in what may be called the principle > of prescription. > > Fourth, conservatives are guided by their principle of prudence. > > Fifth, conservatives pay attention to the principle of variety. > > Sixth, conservatives are chastened by their principle of > imperfectability. > > Seventh, conservatives are persuaded that freedom and property > are closely linked. > > Eighth, conservatives uphold voluntary community, quite as they > oppose involuntary collectivism. > > Ninth, the conservative perceives the need for prudent restraints > upon power and upon human passions. > > Tenth, the thinking conservative understands that permanence and > change must be recognized and reconciled in a vigorous society. -- Garrett Goebel IS Development Specialist ScriptPro Direct: 913.403.5261 5828 Reeds Road Main: 913.384.1008 Mission, KS 66202 Fax: 913.384.2180 www.scriptpro.com garrett at scriptpro dot com

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RE: Open Source Values
by Garrett Goebel 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

I'm uncomfortable lumping the smorgasbord of people, projects, and licenses together and slapping the OSS label on them. And as everyone has a different one, I'm unsure of the merit of discussing value systems. That said, OSS from the legal perspective seems to be about legal frameworks competing to preserve the equivalent of free-range intellectual property. A Commons of the mind that is shored up by a functioning system of community standards and social practices. Where the only coercion is the coercion to share and share alike. All of that provides an incredible opportunity to anyone with a mind and the desire to use it to: o create o scratch an itch o learn from others o avoid ideological ax grinding o avoid reinventing the wheel IMHO, the best projects are the ones that foster a self-supporting community that is welcoming and friendly, but moreover is a meritocracy focused on actually doing the task at hand. Smart people clump together. When a bunch of smart and productive people clump together under an OSS license amazing things can happen. There is a feeling of awe that I get, when following the creative efforts of extremely capable people. It makes you feel like a child. I can hear myself saying: I want to do that. I want to be that good at something. I want to make a difference. -- Garrett Goebel IS Development Specialist ScriptPro Direct: 913.403.5261 5828 Reeds Road Main: 913.384.1008 Mission, KS 66202 Fax: 913.384.2180 www.scriptpro.com garrett at scriptpro dot com

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RE: Dell
by Brian Densmore 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

> -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Hull > > Quoting Brian Densmore: > > > Compaq servers can also be purchased with Linux on them right? > > ... During the era when I > was working with > Compaq hardware, everything was proprietary. If a drive > failed or a stick of > RAM failed, they had to be replaced with Compaq parts. And > those parts failed > on a regular basis. > > ... when Compaq and > HP merged... Maybe part of the reason Compaq merged with HP was, failure rates and proprietary parts. We just got in a Compaq server for a client last week and it looked like a pretty decent server. > > I've been working on Dell hardware at work, exclusively for > the last six years So then you have no recent experience with Compaq servers then. Six years is an eternity in this market. > and have been extremely pleased with it. I was running Linux > on hardware from > Dell before they supported it with very little problems. No one ever said Dell didn't work with Linux, but just that they are not really supportive of Linux. In fact I hear lots of complaints about their Customer support. But what it boils down to is there are plenty of stories going both ways. Dell has always had a pretty decent reputation for rock-solid hardware. Compaqs have always had a rep for proprietary. HP has always been known as rock-solid and expensive. IBM is well IBM. Then there is everyone else. I don't have much experience personally with any brands as I tend to build whatever I need, because the hardware is always rock solid, the price is competitive and the service is outstanding. So I get the best of all worlds. If something fails I always know who to blame, and where to go to get it fixed. [Let the hardware religion war continue] Brian D

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RE: Open Source Values
by Brian Densmore 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

> -----Original Message----- > From: csappenfield > > While it might be comforting (especially after the trouncing > in the recent elections) to think of conservatives in general > as ... The problem here isn't what political conservatives are or what <fill in political ideology group> are. The problem is that when you make generalizations there are always large numbers of people that do not fit the profile. This is the problem that Ralph Nader (this guy really annoys me) and some other people are trying to fix. When you have only two credible choices it is necessary to sacrifice perhaps a great deal of one's values to get the one with the most similar values elected. As far as the last election being a trouncing. It was not much of a trouncing, in fact it's been one of the closer elections in history. [large rant on politics and number manipulation deleted] He won by less than 51% of the vote IIRC. Hardly a trouncing.

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Re: Open Source Values
by csappenfield＠kc.rr.com 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

While it might be comforting (especially after the trouncing in the recent elections) to think of conservatives in general as jackbooted nitwits who love "hierarchy and authority", it probably just isn't true. For example, conservatives worship free markets, which are nothing if not "anarchy, lawlessness, [and] chaos". Conservatives also like property rights. Free software comes with enormous property rights, in exchange for which we give up some methods to profit from those rights. Free software allows cooperation, but doesn't force it- installing Linux on your computer doesn't make you a member of some commune, regardless of what Forbes would have you believe. Business conservatism, rather than political conservatism, is what really opposes Free software. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Herrmann <kclug(a)itdepends.com> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 0:03 am Subject: Re: Open Source Values > I agree with the statement below, and is why I have a hard time > understanding the appeal to the conservative person, which > typically > believes in hierarchy and authority. I really want to hear from > Hal and > Bill on what about OSS that appeals to their values. I'm > listening. > Trying to understand. Help me out here guys. > > Thanks for the input Monty, > Jim > > Monty J. Harder wrote: > > >To the conventional, authoritarian mind, this is 'anarchy, > lawlessness,>chaos!' They can't conceive of a society without > government experts > >giving the imperial imprimatur to certain endeavours; they are > >frightened by the notion that people who aren't even licensed to > >practice computing could build systems to do mission-critical work. > > > -- > Progressive Values ARE American Values > Responsibility, Empathy, Freedom, Opportunity, Prosperity, Fairness, > Trust, Honesty, Open Communication, Community, Cooperation > http://musicalprogress.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Kclug mailing list > Kclug(a)kclug.org > http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug >

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DSL Modem/Router wanted
by Jonathan Hutchins 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

Anybody have a DSL modem/router they want to get rid of? I need ethernet or PCMCIA (never seen one), not USB.

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RE: Dell
by Garrett Goebel 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

Brian Densmore wrote: > > Dell has always had a pretty decent reputation for rock-solid hardware. Actually, back around '89-91 Dell had a reputation for crap hardware. It was the opinion of one of my co-workers at the time, that Dell's brush with a bad reputation is what led to the turn around in quality. -- Garrett Goebel IS Development Specialist ScriptPro Direct: 913.403.5261 5828 Reeds Road Main: 913.384.1008 Mission, KS 66202 Fax: 913.384.2180 www.scriptpro.com garrett at scriptpro dot com

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Re: Fwd: Briefcase computer. Since we're on Laptops
by Brian Kelsay 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

Leave some extra time for when they pull you out of line and have to wait on a supervisor's approval to let you on. Laptop carriers sometimes are asked to turn them on to verify that they are a working computer. What will you do if they ask you to do this and you have no monitor? Good Luck and you may want to call ahead. Can you imagine that a bunch of PC parts in a cheap toolbox might look vaguely like a bomb to someone that doesn't know better? Brian Kelsay >>> djgoku <djgoku(a)gmail.com> 01/24/05 04:11PM >>> > Will airport security let my homemade computer on the plane? You should be alright as long as it can pass through an xray. Laptops usually have to be taken out of the carrying case and placed in a seperate bin. I can't think of a reason why they wouldn't let you get through they might ask you to open it.

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SInce we're on Laptops
by lerninlinux＠comcast.net 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

I've half been thinking about that Via laptop that Walmart sells. Anyone have a Via processor that they have experience with? By no means would it be a power machine, and the memory would be upgraded, I just want data portability, network diagnostics capibility, and a chance to play around with War Driving. All but the Wardriving could be acheived by a modded Briefcase computer I've been threatening to build, out of an old 900 (either amd or intel ) I have. I've been looking to upgrade my machines possibly, but if this is a No on the Via, then I'll probably just wait as I am arguing with myself over an AMD 64 desktop of Laptop for my next system. Thanks Randal

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Briefcase computer
by Jeffrey Martin 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

http://www.mini-box.com/site/index.html

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KCLUG January 2005