June 11, Christopher and others,
I didn't post details because the mere words are a bit moot _without_ the pix to go with them. That is why I have a "Draft" saved (as previously stated) to send anyone who may be interested. But here is the TEXT anyway, since you asked for it:
--->OK, this is what lead to what you see in those pix:
I tried to turn on my Screen Saver again. I had turned it off for the meeting the other night. I got pic #1.
SO, I went into Synaptic, searched for "Screen Saver" (minus the " marks, of course), updated the ones that had gold star (see pic #2 for error I got during that operation) and reinstalled the "kdeartwork" file (see pic #3. for error I got during that operation).
Then I rebooted and got an error about the Desktop that I could not save cuz it popped up half way through loading the OS. Notice the 2nd Floppy Drive Icon added to the Desktop. I did NOT put it there myself but did add the 2 for ID purposes. Also notice my System Tray at the bottom of the screen. It's missing my FOUR desktop options as well as the Clipboard and Volume controls.
In addition, I can not get these tiny windows to move or expand and if I have two up at the same time like I did earlier at the writing of the main part of this explanation with Firefox open and my Error msgs Folder open the windows will not exchange being on top so I can close the folder. (I'm presently on my Windhozed machine.) I must click File and then Exit to get out of Firefox and then the same with the Folder window.
Also, my Mahjongg and Shisen-Sho games open small and are unplayable. I haven't tested any other apps. I feel lucky to be able to have done what I have so far.
AND... when I shut the thing off the screen goes weird looking and Verbose mode looks like so much snow with a few colored dashes thrown in.
$64,000 QUESTION: Is all of this fixable?...or do I have to start all over again with a fresh install of the OS???????????????????????????????????
Thank you in advance for any help you can try to give me.
Julie
>>>>>>>>>>>
--->UPDATE:
Billy answered with this:
"pic 1 shows a missing library. Have you recently "yum remove"' d something or removed something with the pagkage manager? Add it back, and stay out of the package manager. It's a dangerous place.
pic 2 does not show an error. redhat package manager recognises when you have already configured something. If you already have, but a package update provides a config file with the same name as one you the user have touched, it keeps yours in place so that your settings don't change. The 'new' config file that rpm installs will be named <file>.rpmnew.
pic 3 shows the result of a package maintainer including a message to be displayed with the install of their package, but not filling anything in. This error is nothing to worry about. It's just some PCLinuxOS developer who wasn't watching what he was doing, and another package maintainer that missed the error.
firefox FUBAR does not show any problem with firefox. What 'looks FUBAR' is the absence of a window decorator. Firefox does not have a border of its own. (Because I can tell it is firefox, it is hardly beyond all recognition.) It does not have a title bar, or the close/minimize/maximize buttons on its own. These graphical elements are called "window decorations" and are provided by the window decorator. In your case, the window decorator and window manager are one program, called kwin, which is a core element of KDE. You don't explicitly say, but I'm willing to bet no other windows at the time had their decorations either. It's hard to say why the window decorator died. It may have been because of the library from pic1 being missing. It may be because of propriatery plugins, like Yahoo's. You can easily get your window decorator back by logging out and back in. If the problem persists, before reinstallign the system, try logging in as root, removing your normal username, deleting the /home/username directory, and making a new user.
Once rebooted does not appear to show any error. Please clarify what's wrong in this picture."
>>>>>>>>>>>
NOW:
What Billy said about pic 1 _*I*_ did not do. THAT is what prompted me to try fixing this on my own.....
However, there where some of the guys who worked on this computer at the meeting the other night and I have no idea what may have happened then as they were all using command line stuff. (You guys know who you are and maybe you can shed some light on what you tried and why?)
What Billy said about Firefox is inexplicable to me since I have absolutely no way to resize the window when it opens nor can I move it by any means. All other windows appear and act the exact same way.
Yahoo has nothing to do with it. I installed the Yahoo stuff on there a long time ago with _*NO*_ resulting problems. As a matter of fact, I've been using the laptop exclusively for internet browsing and e-mail for a couple of months now until this current problem showed up.
The "Once rebooted" jpeg shows my desktop. It shows an EXTRA "Floppy" icon that just showed up there all by itself. I guess Billy forgot my explanation of that when he responded to me on that issue.
>>>>>>>>>>
NEXT:
When I tried to do what Billy suggested I found that I could NOT do it. Somewhere a while back I mistakenly set a 'log box' to come up when I go into "Root". NOW that 'log box' hides where I need to navigate, appears as a BLANK box containing NOTHING, and hides the place to manually exit the Root window that is open.
Because of this, I made the mistake of trying to boot into SAFE MODE. I'd didn't know it was yet another place where nothing but command line is allowed. In order to get out of it I had to MANUALLY shut off the computer by pressing the Power Button.
NOW the computer will NOT even turn on!!! Every once in a while it makes a noise so my guess is that it is in a sort of 'sleep mode' or something. I have it UNplugged and am waiting for the battery to run out if this is the case. Otherwise I'll try to reboot the thing again tomarrow to see what happens then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
SO:
Now you have all the sordid details that I can give at this point.
Remember, Christopher ASKED for me to "try posting a more detail description of the issues" I'm having.
Again, THANK YOU all in advance for any help you may be able to try to give me.
Julie
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
You're right, it is hard to follow your text without the pics....
Anyway, sounds like you may have killed the program or config that gives you window decorations. This is actually fairly easy to break if you are using compiz and start poking around with the wrong packages, I've done it a handful of times myself.
Is it fixable without a reinstall? Yes. Would it probably be faster to reinstall? Depends on what custom stuff you have rigged up. You could try removing and reinstalling all of the x11/kde/compiz related packages and purging the config files, but then you might as well do a full reinstall at that point. You could dive into your logs and try to figure out why the window decorator isn't starting, but you will need to be fairly knowledgeable about your system config in order to know where to look and how to troubleshoot it.
The only reason not to reinstall is if you have some really complex config running for some specific application or task. For example, I've had painfully complex wine environments where I would prefer days of troubleshooting instead of having to recreate them from scratch. Files are easy to move, so if that is your only concern then just backup and reinstall.
Just my opinion :)
Julie wrote: | June 11, | Christopher and others, | | I didn't post details because the mere words are a bit moot _without_ | the pix to go with them. That is why I have a "Draft" saved (as | previously stated) to send anyone who may be interested. But here is the | TEXT anyway, since you asked for it: | | --->OK, this is what lead to what you see in those pix: | | I tried to turn on my Screen Saver again. I had turned it off for the | meeting the other night. I got pic #1. | | SO, I went into Synaptic, searched for "Screen Saver" (minus the " | marks, of course), updated the ones that had gold star (see pic #2 for | error I got during that operation) and reinstalled the "kdeartwork" file | (see pic #3. for error I got during that operation). | | Then I rebooted and got an error about the Desktop that I could not save | cuz it popped up half way through loading the OS. Notice the 2nd Floppy | Drive Icon added to the Desktop. I did NOT put it there myself but did | add the 2 for ID purposes. Also notice my System Tray at the bottom of | the screen. It's missing my FOUR desktop options as well as the | Clipboard and Volume controls. | | In addition, I can not get these tiny windows to move or expand and if I | have two up at the same time like I did earlier at the writing of the | main part of this explanation with Firefox open and my Error msgs Folder | open the windows will not exchange being on top so I can close the | folder. (I'm presently on my Windhozed machine.) I must click File and | then Exit to get out of Firefox and then the same with the Folder window. | | Also, my Mahjongg and Shisen-Sho games open small and are unplayable. I | haven't tested any other apps. I feel lucky to be able to have done what | I have so far. | | AND... when I shut the thing off the screen goes weird looking and | Verbose mode looks like so much snow with a few colored dashes thrown in. | | $64,000 QUESTION: Is all of this fixable?...or do I have to start all | over again with a fresh install of the OS??????????????????????????????????? | | Thank you in advance for any help you can try to give me. | | Julie | | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | | --->UPDATE: | | Billy answered with this: | | "pic 1 shows a missing library. Have you recently "yum remove"' d | something or removed something with the pagkage manager? Add it back, | and stay out of the package manager. It's a dangerous place. | | pic 2 does not show an error. redhat package manager recognises when | you have already configured something. If you already have, but a | package update provides a config file with the same name as one you | the user have touched, it keeps yours in place so that your settings | don't change. The 'new' config file that rpm installs will be named | <file>.rpmnew. | | pic 3 shows the result of a package maintainer including a message to | be displayed with the install of their package, but not filling | anything in. This error is nothing to worry about. It's just some | PCLinuxOS developer who wasn't watching what he was doing, and another | package maintainer that missed the error. | | firefox FUBAR does not show any problem with firefox. What 'looks | FUBAR' is the absence of a window decorator. Firefox does not have a | border of its own. (Because I can tell it is firefox, it is hardly | beyond all recognition.) It does not have a title bar, or the | close/minimize/maximize buttons on its own. These graphical elements | are called "window decorations" and are provided by the window | decorator. In your case, the window decorator and window manager are | one program, called kwin, which is a core element of KDE. You don't | explicitly say, but I'm willing to bet no other windows at the time | had their decorations either. It's hard to say why the window | decorator died. It may have been because of the library from pic1 | being missing. It may be because of propriatery plugins, like | Yahoo's. You can easily get your window decorator back by logging out | and back in. If the problem persists, before reinstallign the system, | try logging in as root, removing your normal username, deleting the | /home/username directory, and making a new user. | | Once rebooted does not appear to show any error. Please clarify | what's wrong in this picture." | | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | | NOW: | | What Billy said about pic 1 _*I*_ did not do. THAT is what prompted me | to try fixing this on my own..... | | However, there where some of the guys who worked on this computer at the | meeting the other night and I have no idea what may have happened then | as they were all using command line stuff. (You guys know who you are | and maybe you can shed some light on what you tried and why?) | | What Billy said about Firefox is inexplicable to me since I have | absolutely no way to resize the window when it opens nor can I move it | by any means. All other windows appear and act the exact same way. | | Yahoo has nothing to do with it. I installed the Yahoo stuff on there a | long time ago with _*NO*_ resulting problems. As a matter of fact, I've | been using the laptop exclusively for internet browsing and e-mail for a | couple of months now until this current problem showed up. | | The "Once rebooted" jpeg shows my desktop. It shows an EXTRA "Floppy" | icon that just showed up there all by itself. I guess Billy forgot my | explanation of that when he responded to me on that issue. | | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | | NEXT: | | When I tried to do what Billy suggested I found that I could NOT do it. | Somewhere a while back I mistakenly set a 'log box' to come up when I go | into "Root". NOW that 'log box' hides where I need to navigate, appears | as a BLANK box containing NOTHING, and hides the place to manually exit | the Root window that is open. | | Because of this, I made the mistake of trying to boot into SAFE MODE. | I'd didn't know it was yet another place where nothing but command line | is allowed. In order to get out of it I had to MANUALLY shut off the | computer by pressing the Power Button. | | NOW the computer will NOT even turn on!!! Every once in a while it makes | a noise so my guess is that it is in a sort of 'sleep mode' or | something. I have it UNplugged and am waiting for the battery to run out | if this is the case. Otherwise I'll try to reboot the thing again | tomarrow to see what happens then. | | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | | SO: | | Now you have all the sordid details that I can give at this point. | | Remember, Christopher ASKED for me to "try posting a more detail | description of the issues" I'm having. | | Again, THANK YOU all in advance for any help you may be able to try to | give me. | | Julie | | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | | _______________________________________________ | Kclug mailing list | [email protected] | http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
- -- ~Bradley Hook Education Systems Administrator Kansas State School for the Blind 1100 State Avenue Kansas City, KS 66102 Voice: (913) 281-3308 ext. 363 Mobile: (913) 645-9958 Facsimile: (913) 281-3104 http://www.kssb.net
****************************************************************************************** Confidentiality Statement: This message and accompanying documents are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and contain information intended for the specified individual(s) only. This information is confidential unless explicitly indicated otherwise. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, copying, or the taking of any action based on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by E-mail, and delete the original message. ******************************************************************************************
If it's compiz that's messed up, you should be able to choose a non-compiz session at login (you may have to start up then log out). If you have compiz+gnome, you could try installing kde-desktop (whatever the PCLOS meta-package is) and that would give you a working alternative.
Unfortunately, both compiz and KDE4 are currently at a stage where this kind of thing is going to happen.
Yes, in monopoly money.
Luke -Jr wrote:
On Wednesday 11 June 2008, Julie wrote:
$64,000 QUESTION
Do we really get $64,000 for answering?! _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list [email protected] http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
To be perfectly honest you need to start becoming familiar with using the command line. It's simply not possible to deal with the problems that can come up in a Linux system without knowing how to use it, at least somewhat. :)
I know it can be confusing and a bit scary, but to be honest it's where the true power of the system comes from, and there will be many situations where the command line is the only option - and this isn't a limitation of Linux. Unlike almost every other operating system, the command line in Unix is extremely useful and powerful. There's a reason it's still used heavily, and to be honest other than OpenOffice, Firefox, and Evolution it's all I really use in my "GUI" environment.
In your circumstance, to get out of safe mode the most obvious command for you would have been "reboot" to reboot the computer or "halt" to turn it off. You could also type "exit", but that's less obvious.
The sooner you learn how to use the command line the better. I suggest picking up a easy to use book on it. Unfortunately I learned how to use a Unix shell environment fifteen years ago, so I don't have any good recommendations for a book. Does anyone else know a good book or web tutorial for her?
Jeffrey.
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Julie [email protected] wrote:
Because of this, I made the mistake of trying to boot into SAFE MODE. I'd didn't know it was yet another place where nothing but command line is allowed. In order to get out of it I had to MANUALLY shut off the computer by pressing the Power Button.
Unlike almost every other operating system, the command line in Unix is extremely useful and powerful.
Command line in DOS/Windows is usually a much faster way to get things done. I still jump into it for a variety of OS things. MS got the message (pros prefer prompts) and improved their 'shell' via Windows PowerShell.
Thanks,
Ron Geoffrion 913.488.7664
Yes, but the default shell SUCKS DONKEY NUTS. Sure, with 3rd party apps you can make the Windows shell "useful", but it's certainly not great.
Compared to the Unix shell Windows is the slow kid in school. But you are correct, it's "useful", but I always find myself hating Windows even more after using their shell - when you've used the best cmd.exe just reminds you of how far away from that Windows is... :)
Jeffrey.
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 10:28 PM, Geoffrion, Ron P [IT] [email protected] wrote:
Command line in DOS/Windows is usually a much faster way to get things done. I still jump into it for a variety of OS things. MS got the message (pros prefer prompts) and improved their 'shell' via Windows PowerShell.
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Jeffrey Watts [email protected] wrote:
Compared to the Unix shell Windows is the slow kid in school. But you are correct, it's "useful", but I always find myself hating Windows even more after using their shell - when you've used the best cmd.exe just reminds you of how far away from that Windows is... :)
The irony here is that Microsoft's next server release is slated to include a GUI-less installation option. I can't imagine managing a Windows server without a GUI (I don't know, however, it it provides one when using Remote Desktop Client).
The MS-DOS 2.0 (which could multitask a little: it could background printing, itt might have been able to do pipe chains) reference guide had an introductory section discussing command line file redirection operator semantics, in which MSDOS was described as a UNIX.
I wish I still had that book around, I would like to scan the page and post it for reference by link at moments such as now
H:>dir | sort | more
"cmd" can handle pipe chains now, I believe it could twenty years ago.
You can also do redirection to a text file
H:>dir > list.doc
Brian Kelsay
-----Original Message----- From: On Behalf Of David Nicol Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:15 AM
H:>dir | sort | more
"cmd" can handle pipe chains now, I believe it could twenty years ago. _______________________________________________
At one time, I thought DOS handled pipes basically by writing the output of the first program to a file and then connecting the input of the next program to the file, after the first program completed. I don't think it resulted in the two programs running in parallel.
Does anyone else remember this?
Adrian
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:14 AM, David Nicol [email protected] wrote:
H:>dir | sort | more
"cmd" can handle pipe chains now, I believe it could twenty years ago. _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list [email protected] http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Adrian Griffis [email protected] wrote:
At one time, I thought DOS handled pipes basically by writing the output of the first program to a file and then connecting the input of the next program to the file, after the first program completed. I don't think it resulted in the two programs running in parallel.
Does anyone else remember this?
You are correct. DOS didn't really have a way for those programs to be running at the same time, so it would use temp files under the hood to hide that inconvenient fact.
In order for two programs to be running at once, one had to go TSR and hook an interrupt to get some CPU time.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The CLI is the heart and soul of Linux. It is where all the power resides. Once you learn it, you will never want to go back.
An extremely simple and free introduction to some CLI tasks can be found in the Hacker Highschool PDFs (http://www.hackerhighschool.org/). I'd suggest you start there, especially because it gives you primers on other important things like security and networking. It also gives you comparisons of CLI commands for Linux and Windows.
After that, if you really want to learn how Linux works, then read the Linux From Scratch (LFS) book. It provides step-by-step instructions for building a Linux distribution from scratch. Aside from reading the kernel source code line by line, I don't know of a better way to learn about how Linux works.
Jeffrey Watts wrote: | To be perfectly honest you need to start becoming familiar with using | the command line. It's simply not possible to deal with the problems | that can come up in a Linux system without knowing how to use it, at | least somewhat. :) | | I know it can be confusing and a bit scary, but to be honest it's | where the true power of the system comes from, and there will be many | situations where the command line is the only option - and this isn't | a limitation of Linux. Unlike almost every other operating system, | the command line in Unix is extremely useful and powerful. There's a | reason it's still used heavily, and to be honest other than | OpenOffice, Firefox, and Evolution it's all I really use in my "GUI" | environment. | | In your circumstance, to get out of safe mode the most obvious command | for you would have been "reboot" to reboot the computer or "halt" to | turn it off. You could also type "exit", but that's less obvious. | | The sooner you learn how to use the command line the better. I | suggest picking up a easy to use book on it. Unfortunately I learned | how to use a Unix shell environment fifteen years ago, so I don't have | any good recommendations for a book. Does anyone else know a good | book or web tutorial for her? | | Jeffrey. | | On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Julie [email protected] wrote: |> Because of this, I made the mistake of trying to boot into SAFE MODE. I'd |> didn't know it was yet another place where nothing but command line is |> allowed. In order to get out of it I had to MANUALLY shut off the computer |> by pressing the Power Button. |
- -- ~Bradley Hook Education Systems Administrator Kansas State School for the Blind 1100 State Avenue Kansas City, KS 66102 Voice: (913) 281-3308 ext. 363 Mobile: (913) 645-9958 Facsimile: (913) 281-3104 http://www.kssb.net
****************************************************************************************** Confidentiality Statement: This message and accompanying documents are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and contain information intended for the specified individual(s) only. This information is confidential unless explicitly indicated otherwise. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, copying, or the taking of any action based on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by E-mail, and delete the original message. ******************************************************************************************